Eva

Speaker 1

Oh.

Speaker 2

Sure.

Speaker 1

Do you come from France?

Speaker 2

Claro.

Speaker 1

And what about their parents?

Speaker 2

Claro.

Speaker 1

Where are they from?

Speaker 2

My father is from Sabadell.

Speaker 1

Oh.

Speaker 2

Oh, not Sabadell, but Castellar del Vallès, right next to Sabadell. And my mother is from Aragón, from a town called Val de Robres, though they speak a kind of Catalan there.

Speaker 1

Oh, the border region.

Speaker 2

Oh, it's right on the border. And they call it the "chapuriau."

Speaker 1

They call it that.

Speaker 2

Oh. So they were speaking Catalan, the two of them.

Speaker 1

Do they speak Catalan at home?

Speaker 2

We speak French, and they speak Catalan.

Speaker 1

And their parents, when did they come to France?

Speaker 2

57 of them.

Speaker 1

Oh, so why do you speak Spanish then?

Speaker 2

At school.

Speaker 1

Oh, is this Spanish from school?

Speaker 2

Sure.

Speaker 1

Oh, just from school? Then you speak Spanish well, right?

Speaker 2

Oh, Spanish, yes.

Speaker 1

And what about Catalan?

Speaker 2

And Catalan?

Speaker 1

Oh, so you want to learn Catalan?

Speaker 2

Because no, but it's difficult to find.

Speaker 1

Well, here's what it does.

Speaker 2

Oh, here at the Sorbonne, yes, but...

Speaker 1

Oh, he lives farther away.

Speaker 2

It's a bit far.

Speaker 1

Oh, did you hear Catalan at home when you were little?

Speaker 2

All day.

Speaker 1

All day. And your parents were talking to you in Catalan?

Speaker 2

Sure.

Speaker 1

But you always answered in French.

Speaker 2

Claro.

Speaker 1

Do you have any siblings?

Speaker 2

I have two sisters, one born in Sabadell.

Oh, he came at three, so he spoke Catalan when reading. And then always French.

Speaker 1

Is the other sister younger than you?

Speaker 2

Oh, the youngest one is 61.

Speaker 1

Oh, between you and me, as far as you can recall, always in French.

Speaker 2

Yes, all three, the three sisters, yes.

Speaker 1

Always in French.

Speaker 2

Claro.

Speaker 1

Oh, and with the parents? And the older one spoke Catalan with them or not?

Speaker 2

Oh.

Speaker 1

Oh?

Speaker 2

Not necessarily.

Speaker 1

Oh. I mean, all of them are French. And none of them, none of you, have married a Catalan?

Speaker 2

Oh.

Speaker 1

Oh. Were they returning to Sabadell?

Speaker 2

Oh, to Sabadell? No. We go to Val de Robres often. Well, once every five or six years, with my mother, who loved it very much. She passed away a year ago, at 100 years old. So, it’s a shame, you see?

Oh. A little French.

Speaker 1

But speak however you like.

Speaker 2

We went to Spain for the inheritance. Three olives, each one.

Oh, it’s very important to us.

Speaker 1

What will you do with these three olives?

Speaker 2

Oh, we’ve done nothing for 50 years, for 70 years it’s been gone. But we know we have olives.

Speaker 1

Do you have three olive trees in Val de Robles? And in Val de Robles, do people speak Catalan, do they speak Spanish?

Speaker 2

Oh.

Speaker 1

Oh. What is...

Speaker 2

People in the village speak chapuriau, which is very similar to Catalan. There are some words that are a little different, but if not...

Speaker 1

Does she have cousins there?

Speaker 2

In the family, not many people remain. They are all deceased.

Speaker 1

All gone?

Speaker 2

Claro.

Oh, none left... they're third or fourth cousins, really.

Speaker 1

Oh, their parents came when they emigrated here? They came... well, of course.

Speaker 2

Oh, they were just over 30 years old.

Speaker 1

Did they live in Sabadell?

Speaker 2

Oh, they lived in Sabadell.

Speaker 1

So their mother moved from the village to Sabadell.

Speaker 2

She also lived for a good while in Barcelona. She had family there.

Speaker 1

In the city instead.

Speaker 2

Cousins.

Speaker 1

Oh, so to speak, from the Vallès, from Sabadell, he came here. Did he meet his father there?

Speaker 2

Oh.

Speaker 1

Oh, did they get married?

Speaker 2

Oh, and they got married. They stayed there for a while and then went to France.

Speaker 1

Sure.

Speaker 2

Oh, hoping for a better life.

Speaker 1

Oh, did they have a better life here?

Speaker 2

I don’t know.

Oh, it wasn’t so bad. Well, anyway. For us, I’m sure I think it’s been better. For the studies and all, we’ve been able to do things I don’t know if it would’ve been so easy in Catalonia at this time.

We all have higher education.

Speaker 1

Do you feel Catalan?

Speaker 2

Oh, French. I love Catalan very much. But feeling... I’ve never lived there, so... And you’re patient, but when I try to speak Catalan in Catalonia, they don’t understand a thing.

Speaker 1

Everyone speaks to him...

Speaker 2

They don’t understand what I’m saying.

Speaker 1

They speak to him...

Speaker 2

Oh, in Spanish or something like that.

Speaker 1

They speak to him in Spanish.

Speaker 2

I'm a foreigner.

Speaker 1

They switch languages.

Speaker 2

What?

Speaker 1

They switch languages.

Speaker 2

Oh. In Spanish.

Speaker 1

And did their parents feel themselves to be Catalan?

Speaker 2

Oh. Yes, yes. My mother was from Aragon. It’s not the same. She wasn’t Catalan.

My father, yes, but he was from his own family, came from southern Spain. He was born...

Speaker 1

Born?

Speaker 2

Oh, he was born in Catalonia, and so were his brothers and sisters, but his father was from Andalusia and so was his mother.

Speaker 1

So they were emigrants too.

Speaker 2

They were immigrants too.

I know they didn’t like it when their parents spoke only Spanish and he spoke Catalan, like us.

Very odd, the family.

Speaker 1

A family.

Speaker 2

Climbing into it... I don't know.

Speaker 1

A family that has switched languages over time.

Speaker 2

Claro.

Speaker 1

Well, the older generation spoke a different language from the younger one.

Speaker 2

Claro.

Speaker 1

All of them, all of them. Not with her children, no. Do you have children?

Speaker 2

Nope.

Speaker 1

Does she have any children? Or her sisters?

Speaker 2

My older sister has a son who speaks only French and English. He lives in Canada, in Montreal.

Speaker 1

Then he speaks a different French.

Speaker 2

Claro.

Speaker 1

Oh, yes. It's almost like another language. And did you get to know your grandparents?

Speaker 2

I met my grandfather beside my mother. He came during the war. He was one of the Republicans. Republicans. And the others stayed in Castellar del Vallès and died very young.

Speaker 1

Oh, that grandfather...

Speaker 2

I’ve never seen them.

Speaker 1

And this old man came here before his parents did?

Speaker 2

Oh, yes, yes. During the war.

Speaker 1

Oh, did he stay here?

Speaker 2

Claro.

Speaker 1

Oh?

Speaker 2

Well, he has met his wife.

Speaker 1

Oh, his wife?

Speaker 2

Her wife has…

Speaker 1

Oh.

Speaker 2

Oh. First he came. During the war. He was in the camps of... what do you call them? In the south of France, during the war.

Speaker 1

Arles-sur-Tech or...

Speaker 2

Oh. It was lovely. He stayed there for a good while. Then he moved up to Normandy, to Caen. And his wife came much, much later. Much, much later. 15 or 16 years later.

Speaker 1

The kids stayed in Castellar del Vallès.

Speaker 2

The children were already...

Speaker 1

Oh, grown up.

Speaker 2

Oh, right.

Speaker 1

So she ended up alone there.

Speaker 2

Oh, just my mother and two sisters. The lad’s gone too. He left about the same time as my grandfather, during the war. Right after the war, a little later. I don’t know how many years.

Speaker 1

Oh, and then their parents, when they came here, did they reunite with the father? With their grandfather?

Speaker 2

Oh, yes, grandfather and my mother’s sister.

Speaker 1

Oh. And did they actually speak a bit of mixed Spanish? Did they speak Catalan or not? What did they speak?

Speaker 2

Oh. The brother had married a Frenchwoman and didn’t speak much Catalan at home. Only French, really.

Speaker 1

And Grandpa?

Speaker 2

Oh. The grandfather, Catalan. Catalan. His wife, Catalan, yes.

Speaker 1

But then here in France you didn’t live close to your grandparents.

Speaker 2

What?

Speaker 1

Did you know your grandparents?

Speaker 2

Oh, the ones who lived here, yes.

Speaker 1

Oh, the ones who lived here, yes. And then they didn’t speak to them in Catalan?

Speaker 2

I don’t remember. It was a long time ago. I think they spoke Catalan and sometimes answered in French. They understood it very well. They had been there for 30 years, so…

Speaker 1

Oh, and how did you find out about this study?

Speaker 2

Oh, I have a friend who takes courses here—she’s French, but she’s really into Catalan and has learned it. Whenever we meet at my place, we speak Catalan together.

Speaker 1

Oh, how nice! That way you both get to practice.

Speaker 2

A bit. Otherwise, Spanish too. And French, of course.

Speaker 1

Did he say, "Look, there's this study"?

Speaker 2

Oh, she showed me that, sent it to me, and that’s how I saw it. And I like helping her.

Speaker 1

All right.

Speaker 2

Help them.

Speaker 1

Oh, thank you very much.

Speaker 2

I think it's interesting to see how people bond over language.

Speaker 1

Oh. Well now... So you think you speak Spanish much better than Catalan?

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

Oh?

Speaker 2

Oh, I can write it, that Catalan... I love it, I love reading it, but to find...

Speaker 1

What about?

Speaker 2

Oh, to find a book in Catalan, here’s one...

Speaker 1

Oh, but...

Speaker 2

Sometimes my friend gives me one.

Speaker 1

There is a library here.

Speaker 2

Sure.

Speaker 1

Oh, so now and then he can come and pick up a book.

Speaker 2

Claro.

Speaker 1

Oh, and does it never play Catalan radio or show Catalan television? Or Catalan podcasts, of which there are many.

Speaker 2

Oh, I’ve seen a few series in English that were dubbed in Catalan. That’s all. But no…

Speaker 1

Nor do they.

Speaker 2

No trouble for Catalan.

Speaker 1

Oh, just an illusion.

Speaker 2

Oh, yes, I like it, but I don’t intend to.

Speaker 1

Oh, he doesn't think about it.

Speaker 2

Oh.

Speaker 1

Let me tune the radio to Catalan.

Speaker 2

Claro.

Speaker 1

Oh?

Speaker 2

Yes, there are radios.

Speaker 1

Oh, so many.

Speaker 2

Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1

Oh, the radio works very well. It's of very good quality, the radio. There are also all the podcasts, all the radio programs you can listen to in Catalan. If you have any special interest in your life, I don't know. I, for example, since I really like psychology, things like that, well I download programs from Catalunya Ràdio that are about psychology and I listen to them as podcasts, for instance.

Speaker 2

On TV as well?

Speaker 1

Oh, on Catalan television too, of course. There are series, there are films, there's everything. Yes, indeed.

Speaker 2

I’ve seen that there were films.

Speaker 1

Oh, yes, yes.

Speaker 2

But we must make the effort.

Speaker 1

Oh, it has to be done.

Speaker 2

The effort.

Speaker 1

Oh. Very well. So you have any question, Núria? For Eva? No?

Speaker 3

I don’t know if she wants to add anything or in French, even if she wants to explain something in Italian.

Speaker 2

Oh, I don’t know. No, it’s a shame. I don’t make the effort. I don’t make the effort. But it’s true that every time I’m in a Catalan environment, hearing Catalan, it gives me pleasure to understand. Well, look, I already do… These days I’m working on my Spanish, because it’s the same. I never speak Spanish, even though I know it pretty well. And it saddens me not to take advantage of it. Because, well… Now, English is easier, since I lived a year and a half in England, in the United States. And so, well, everything that’s in English, all of that, just comes naturally.

I tell myself that having two other languages and not making use of them is a shame.

Speaker 1

What has he dedicated himself to? What has he done? What has been his profession?

Speaker 2

Computing.

Speaker 1

We now have our third computer session.

Speaker 2

Oh, really?

Speaker 1

Oh.

Speaker 2

But industrial computing.

Speaker 1

Oh?

Speaker 2

Right?

Speaker 1

Oh. A computer engineer came by. Yes, yes, he did all the machine programming, for factories, for... Right? Yes, yes. He told me the company’s name many times, but I can’t recall it now. And he was Catalan. He was Catalan. But Catalan, 79 years old.

Speaker 2

I worked a lot with water. In water management, which comes from...

Speaker 1

Oh, yes, yes.

Speaker 2

Tap.

Speaker 1

Tap.

Speaker 2

Tap. The tap, that. Right. Very, very interesting.

Speaker 1

The water that falls...

Speaker 2

Oh, in France, especially in the villages, it's quite... Everything is automated. So there are things to do.

Speaker 1

Oh. Yes, we must save water. It shouldn’t... It’ll be a blessing... I think this water will soon be like oil, so valuable. We don’t give it the importance it deserves. Especially now that all the water needed to cool the machines used for artificial intelligence is in demand. So much water is required, so much water.

Speaker 2

Water for everything.

Speaker 1

Oh, yes, for the pants, for everything. It's true.

Speaker 2

I don’t know how many metres of water are needed to make a device. It’s incredible.

Speaker 1

Well, the dyes, the colors, everything. Very good. So let’s wrap up the interview here.